гАдский папа, у наземных животных в зоопарке (лисиц, волков) в вольерах раньше (давно не была) был сделан деревянный настил с недольшими зазорами, а под ним бетонный пол с наклоном.
Это было сделано потому что животное не думает о том, что если ему захотелось полежать - оно пойдет на подстилку. оно там только ночью спит. И то не всегда...
![Фотография](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/profile/default_large.png)
Приют для бездомных животныхНужна помощь реальному приюту!
Автор РЕТ, 11.03.2005, 14:22
#882
Отправлено 21.04.2007, 14:12:38
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
возникла идея, нахожусь сейчас в Австралии, так вот здесь многие и красный крест и пожарники и неотложка, стоят на крупных городских перекрестках в ярких одеждах с большими банками, куда люди кладут денюжку! Может у нас в Алматы тоже самое сделать, не навязчиво конечно!
#883
Отправлено 22.04.2007, 12:40:06
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
У нас вчера день прошел очень продуктивно. Людей собралось немного, но видимо самые близкие по-духу.
Спасибо Всем, кто помогал и работал с нами:
Сегодня мы собираемся помогать, работать в нижнем приюте в 14.00-15.00
Адрес: Братская 24, райот оптовки Ташкентская, уг. Розыбакиева.
Спасибо Всем, кто помогал и работал с нами:
Сегодня мы собираемся помогать, работать в нижнем приюте в 14.00-15.00
Адрес: Братская 24, райот оптовки Ташкентская, уг. Розыбакиева.
#885
Отправлено 23.04.2007, 10:47:57
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
Всем привет! Я новенький, но прочитал т начало и доконца всю эту глобальную и грустную тему((( сразу же начал рассылать своим друзьям и просить и делать , то же самое. Хочу высказать благодарносмть тем людям, которые занимаются этим великим делом. Спасибо вам.. Седня поеду к своей бабушке она в частном секторе живет и по мере возможности попробую обоити все близ лизжайшие дома, проинформитровать их.... если что мой телефон 87017620133.... Обращайтесь помогй чем смогу....
#886
Отправлено 23.04.2007, 11:51:45
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
Всем привет!
Субботник у нас удался! Закупили и завезли все стройматериалы, начали работать строители.
Уже полностью демонтированн старый вольер и залит фундамент нового.
Вывезли Камаз и Газель мусора.
Спасибо всем, кто помогал:
Weronika8, Tigra-NHunter с супругом Маратом, Аврора и Михей, Ivanov911, alyonka1182, Коржик(а)[b]-(в воскресенье).[b] Особенно досталось мужчинам. ведь их было всего 2-е!!!!
Вчера в старом приюте мы с alyonka1182 и Коржик(а) наводили порядок, чистили и кормили. Я сделала несколько фото:
Вот 2 мамаши, которых еще не снимали:
![Изображение](http://photofile.ru/photo/priut/2605984/large/49839488.jpg)
Субботник у нас удался! Закупили и завезли все стройматериалы, начали работать строители.
Уже полностью демонтированн старый вольер и залит фундамент нового.
Вывезли Камаз и Газель мусора.
Спасибо всем, кто помогал:
Weronika8, Tigra-NHunter с супругом Маратом, Аврора и Михей, Ivanov911, alyonka1182, Коржик(а)[b]-(в воскресенье).[b] Особенно досталось мужчинам. ведь их было всего 2-е!!!!
Вчера в старом приюте мы с alyonka1182 и Коржик(а) наводили порядок, чистили и кормили. Я сделала несколько фото:
Вот 2 мамаши, которых еще не снимали:
![Изображение](http://photofile.ru/photo/priut/2605984/large/49839488.jpg)
![Изображение](http://photofile.ru/photo/priut/2605984/large/49839501.jpg)
#888
Отправлено 23.04.2007, 12:17:51
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
Мы были вчера вечером в приюте, поговорили с Лидией Михайловной, но технические вопросы остались без ответа:
1) какой размер вольера? где-то 3 на 12 метров (у меня очень плохой глазомер)?
2) сколько собак планируется разместить в нем? плюс-минус? нужны ли будки? если нужны, то сколько, какого размера, когда? или есть более срочная работа?
3) от чего зависит срок перевоза собак из старого приюта в новый? есть ли какой-то жесткий срок?
1) какой размер вольера? где-то 3 на 12 метров (у меня очень плохой глазомер)?
2) сколько собак планируется разместить в нем? плюс-минус? нужны ли будки? если нужны, то сколько, какого размера, когда? или есть более срочная работа?
3) от чего зависит срок перевоза собак из старого приюта в новый? есть ли какой-то жесткий срок?
Сообщение отредактировал koshkuns: 23.04.2007, 12:18:22
#893
Отправлено 23.04.2007, 15:27:32
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
всем привет,
Амена, званила Вам в субботу, не могла дозваниться, телефон отключен был.
я написала еще в несколько организаций Индии, Германии, Великобритании.
в статье, ссылку на которую дала Donna, есть хорошие идеи, как наладить систему стерилизации, отлова и организации приютов.
самый лучший способ с вами увидеться,это в приюте? у меня просто нет машины..
Амена, званила Вам в субботу, не могла дозваниться, телефон отключен был.
я написала еще в несколько организаций Индии, Германии, Великобритании.
в статье, ссылку на которую дала Donna, есть хорошие идеи, как наладить систему стерилизации, отлова и организации приютов.
самый лучший способ с вами увидеться,это в приюте? у меня просто нет машины..
#894
Отправлено 23.04.2007, 17:53:59
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
С сегодняшнего дня про нас начал писать журнал Огонек. Наша тема номера. Сегодня с Ириной в приют едет один из журналистов, другой ездит по государственным инстанциям, ветнадзорам и прочее: выбивает инфу про то, как у нас это бывает. Будет большая информативная статья.
#895
Отправлено 23.04.2007, 20:42:40
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
Здравствуйте, дорогие друзья! Я к Вам из Кыргызстана. На реклама меня уже знают. В общем-то, я там и узнала адрес. Вот, что хочется сказать по поводу приютов. Я сначала думала, будет приют, будет помощь. Не тут то было. Тащить на себе приют частным лицам долго нереально. Всё равно нужна глобальная помощь и поддержка государства.
У нас конечно микро-приют. Но работы хватает. Вечером ног не чувствуешь. Необходимо пробивать закон о защите прав животных. Но для этого нужно, что бы были люди, которые только этим и будут заниматься. И приют должен находиться в отдалении от жилых домов. И регистрация нужна. В общем, это должно быть государство в государстве. Честно говоря, хочется в Казахстан. Смотрю, у вас люди откликнулись, собрались. Возможно, я что-то не так делаю, не могу привлечь к нашему приюту людей. Но элементарно не хватает сил. Мы 4 года занимались спасением животных тихонько, боялись, что смеяться будут. Только и помогала нам наш доктор Гаухар Альпиева. Лечила наших животных бесплатно.
Может кто-нибудь уже занимается тем, что составляет проект Закона, поделитесь наработками, с чего начать, к кому обращаться. Хотя с нашими бесконечными революциями?? Наверно вы догадываетесь куда меня пошлют вместе с моим проектом.
Надеюсь, не выгоните меня, может кто, что подскажет. Вот нам Ирина с Алматы (Джинджер) даёт 2 мешка корма. Ещё раз спасибо Ирина.
У нас конечно микро-приют. Но работы хватает. Вечером ног не чувствуешь. Необходимо пробивать закон о защите прав животных. Но для этого нужно, что бы были люди, которые только этим и будут заниматься. И приют должен находиться в отдалении от жилых домов. И регистрация нужна. В общем, это должно быть государство в государстве. Честно говоря, хочется в Казахстан. Смотрю, у вас люди откликнулись, собрались. Возможно, я что-то не так делаю, не могу привлечь к нашему приюту людей. Но элементарно не хватает сил. Мы 4 года занимались спасением животных тихонько, боялись, что смеяться будут. Только и помогала нам наш доктор Гаухар Альпиева. Лечила наших животных бесплатно.
Может кто-нибудь уже занимается тем, что составляет проект Закона, поделитесь наработками, с чего начать, к кому обращаться. Хотя с нашими бесконечными революциями?? Наверно вы догадываетесь куда меня пошлют вместе с моим проектом.
Надеюсь, не выгоните меня, может кто, что подскажет. Вот нам Ирина с Алматы (Джинджер) даёт 2 мешка корма. Ещё раз спасибо Ирина.
#899
Отправлено 24.04.2007, 09:57:46
![](https://vse.kz/public/style_images/osnovnoi34/post_offline.png)
Около месяца назад я писала в международную организацию. Сегодня пришел ответ. Он длинный, так что делю на два сообщения
Dear Elena
So sorry for the delay in replying to your email!
First -- I would like to make a correction. The Mayhew Animal Home does not have a shelter in Moscow. The Mayhew has set up a website to help a group of people (mainly European expats) who are working to find homes for homeless animals. We do not support shelters. Our main project in Moscow is the establishment of a training programme for veterinary students at the Scriabin State Veterinary Academy; in a joint-venture with Scriabin Academy, we plan to offer low-cost vaccination and neutering services to people who are caring for street dogs.
Regarding your email -- We know well the terribel situation for stray dogs in Kazakhstan, like also in Ukraine and Kyrgzstan and Armenia . . .
The story is always the same. There are many people like Lyudmilla and also many people like yourselves who want to help. I am very glad to read that you understand there is a problem with Lyudmilla and what she is doing. Unfortunately, although her heart is good, her actions will hurt more animals than help them. So my first advice to you would be -- stop getting involved with Lyudmilla and her animals. In the UK and USA, her mental condition is what we call a "hoarder." It is a medical condition where a person implusively collections things, sometimes animals, believing she is saving them. Animal Protection laws in Europe and USA would prevent people like Lyudmilla from collecting animals. Unfortunately Kazakhstan has no such laws so there is nothing you can do.The money that you give to Lyudmilla, for food and medicine, although good intentioned, unfortunately will be wasted.
To help the animals, you need a three-way programme: Sterilisation, Education, Campaign.
(1) Sterilisation: I would recommend that you find a local vet (or several vets!) who genuinely cares about animals, especially the poor stray dogs, and who would be willing to help you. The best way you can help the animals, to prevent them from suffering and to prevent more animals from suffering in the future, is to sterilise the animals so that they cannot reproduce -- and for this you need a vet, a very good and caring vet. The money that you have would be best used towards paying for the cost of the operations -- if the vet is truly wanting to help, he/she would usually offer to do the neutering for no fee except the cost of the medicines. Usually younger vets are more sympathetic. Older vets sometimes could be hostile because they see you as trying to take away their business. This is the first step. Once you find a vet, then you can implement the Catch-Neuter-Vaccinate-Return (CNVR) programme which I will explain in more detail later.
(2) Education: an education programme for the local community and for children would be a great way to help the street dogs. The education programme should explain about the poor quality of life for the animals on the street, emphasise the need for neutering and also explain dog behaviour so that children understand how to read dogs' body language (so they do not become afraid of dogs). The education programme should encourage the children to love and respect animals and understand the responsbility of caring for an animal. Education programmes for the community (adults) can focus more on the need for sterilisation and also adoption.
(3) Campaign -- the most important aspect of the three-way programme is campaign. What I mean is, you (and your group of volunteers) need to establish communication with your local government, the people who are in charge of catching and killing the dogs. You need to make the govt officials understand that you are a professional group of people who is offering them a solution to the stray dogs problem. When making contact with the government, always remember to be very professional in your conduct and dress. Unfortunately, most government officials think people who want to help animals are like Lyudmilla and this is a big problem because they will not take you seriously. You will probably have to try and try and try again many times before they agree to meet with you. However, a CNVR programme will not succeed without the support of the government. Most importantly, when you do meet with govt officials, you have to prepared to be completely unemotional (don't talk about the killing or murder of dogs) and be as economical (they want to hear about money) as possible.
As I'm sure you already know, the number of stray dogs on the street is so large that there is no possible way that you (or anybody else) will be able to find homes for them all or save each and every one of them. Therefore, I am not recommending a shelter or adoption as the answer. CNVR is a widely-endorsed humane animal control programme whereby stray dogs are humanely caught, sterilised, vaccinated against rabies, and then released back onto the streets where they were caught. These dogs are marked with identification so that local people will know that these dogs are not sick or dangerous. (Dogs which are agressive against people will have to be humanely euthanised; they cannot be released back onto the streets because if people get bitten then the government will have an excuse to go back to catch and kill.) Also, this is why you need the support of the government -- because you cannot do CNVR if the government will just catch and kill the animals you have sterilised. You need these neutered animals to stay on the street so that they will guard their territory and prevent unneutered dogs from entering their territory. Education for the local community will also get people involved and most of the time there will be people willing to feed these dogs once they have been vaccinated and sterilised. If the animals do not continue to reproduce, the population will stabilise and decrease over time. Obviously this will take many years but a business financial plan will show that the cost of a CNVR programme over 10 years will be cheaper than the government's annual cost for catching and killing.
Everything that I have said above requires people who loves animals but also have a brave heart and can be professional. Dealing with the government is frustrating and requires great skills. Education need people with good people skills and who are good with children. Sterilisation -- you need one or two very good vets. This is all working for the long term, to stop animals suffering now and forever. This is very different from what Lyudmilla is doing or what people with "shelters" are doing.
Obviously you will come across animals, mostly puppies, who cannot be released back onto the streets. In this case, you will need to find them homes. I think this is definitely the right thing to do, and it will extremely emotionally rewarding to see each animals you save. However, I would caution you against having too many animals such that you no longer have time for CNVR and Education. One good way to limit yourself is to make sure that you help only the number of animals that you (and your friends) can help in your own homes -- usually no more than 2-3 in your home at any one time. And until these animals find new homes, you do not accept any more animals. This is difficult (because it means you will have to say "no" to many animals who may die without your help) but necessary if you don't want to become just a shelter.
Lastly, back to Lyudmilla, one way you could help her would be to make sure that her 70 animals are all neutered that so no more will be born. (Unfortunately we also encounter great resistance to neutering with hoarders because they cannot understand the ethical reason.) Perhaps you can persuade her to give you the youngest ones to find new homes by making her understand that these animals will have nowhere to go if her home is demolished later this year. Dogs that are extremely ill or severly crippled (if they can walk) or aggressive should be euthanised.
I am sorry to overwhelm you with information and seem so cold-hearted. Helping animals is not a simple thing. The Mayhew and many other organisations like us are working, trying to end animal suffering. Governments are slowly learning, responding to pressure such as tourism, agreeing to negotiate with professional organisations like The Mayhew and the RSPCA. There is hope and we are moving in the right direction.
I send you also some links which include information on CNVR and other animal welfare activities.
http://www.mtspayneutertaskforce.org/
http://www.snip-international.org/
http://www.wsdindia.org/index.htm
http://www.yamp.com/balidogs/
I know there is a lot of information. Feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Regards,
Joy Lee
International Projects Officer
The Mayhew Animal Home
Trenmar Gardens, Kensal Green
London NW10 6BJ
Direct Telephone: 020 8968 2440
Fax: +44 (20) 8964 3221
Website: www.mayhewanimalhome.org
Dear Elena
So sorry for the delay in replying to your email!
First -- I would like to make a correction. The Mayhew Animal Home does not have a shelter in Moscow. The Mayhew has set up a website to help a group of people (mainly European expats) who are working to find homes for homeless animals. We do not support shelters. Our main project in Moscow is the establishment of a training programme for veterinary students at the Scriabin State Veterinary Academy; in a joint-venture with Scriabin Academy, we plan to offer low-cost vaccination and neutering services to people who are caring for street dogs.
Regarding your email -- We know well the terribel situation for stray dogs in Kazakhstan, like also in Ukraine and Kyrgzstan and Armenia . . .
The story is always the same. There are many people like Lyudmilla and also many people like yourselves who want to help. I am very glad to read that you understand there is a problem with Lyudmilla and what she is doing. Unfortunately, although her heart is good, her actions will hurt more animals than help them. So my first advice to you would be -- stop getting involved with Lyudmilla and her animals. In the UK and USA, her mental condition is what we call a "hoarder." It is a medical condition where a person implusively collections things, sometimes animals, believing she is saving them. Animal Protection laws in Europe and USA would prevent people like Lyudmilla from collecting animals. Unfortunately Kazakhstan has no such laws so there is nothing you can do.The money that you give to Lyudmilla, for food and medicine, although good intentioned, unfortunately will be wasted.
To help the animals, you need a three-way programme: Sterilisation, Education, Campaign.
(1) Sterilisation: I would recommend that you find a local vet (or several vets!) who genuinely cares about animals, especially the poor stray dogs, and who would be willing to help you. The best way you can help the animals, to prevent them from suffering and to prevent more animals from suffering in the future, is to sterilise the animals so that they cannot reproduce -- and for this you need a vet, a very good and caring vet. The money that you have would be best used towards paying for the cost of the operations -- if the vet is truly wanting to help, he/she would usually offer to do the neutering for no fee except the cost of the medicines. Usually younger vets are more sympathetic. Older vets sometimes could be hostile because they see you as trying to take away their business. This is the first step. Once you find a vet, then you can implement the Catch-Neuter-Vaccinate-Return (CNVR) programme which I will explain in more detail later.
(2) Education: an education programme for the local community and for children would be a great way to help the street dogs. The education programme should explain about the poor quality of life for the animals on the street, emphasise the need for neutering and also explain dog behaviour so that children understand how to read dogs' body language (so they do not become afraid of dogs). The education programme should encourage the children to love and respect animals and understand the responsbility of caring for an animal. Education programmes for the community (adults) can focus more on the need for sterilisation and also adoption.
(3) Campaign -- the most important aspect of the three-way programme is campaign. What I mean is, you (and your group of volunteers) need to establish communication with your local government, the people who are in charge of catching and killing the dogs. You need to make the govt officials understand that you are a professional group of people who is offering them a solution to the stray dogs problem. When making contact with the government, always remember to be very professional in your conduct and dress. Unfortunately, most government officials think people who want to help animals are like Lyudmilla and this is a big problem because they will not take you seriously. You will probably have to try and try and try again many times before they agree to meet with you. However, a CNVR programme will not succeed without the support of the government. Most importantly, when you do meet with govt officials, you have to prepared to be completely unemotional (don't talk about the killing or murder of dogs) and be as economical (they want to hear about money) as possible.
As I'm sure you already know, the number of stray dogs on the street is so large that there is no possible way that you (or anybody else) will be able to find homes for them all or save each and every one of them. Therefore, I am not recommending a shelter or adoption as the answer. CNVR is a widely-endorsed humane animal control programme whereby stray dogs are humanely caught, sterilised, vaccinated against rabies, and then released back onto the streets where they were caught. These dogs are marked with identification so that local people will know that these dogs are not sick or dangerous. (Dogs which are agressive against people will have to be humanely euthanised; they cannot be released back onto the streets because if people get bitten then the government will have an excuse to go back to catch and kill.) Also, this is why you need the support of the government -- because you cannot do CNVR if the government will just catch and kill the animals you have sterilised. You need these neutered animals to stay on the street so that they will guard their territory and prevent unneutered dogs from entering their territory. Education for the local community will also get people involved and most of the time there will be people willing to feed these dogs once they have been vaccinated and sterilised. If the animals do not continue to reproduce, the population will stabilise and decrease over time. Obviously this will take many years but a business financial plan will show that the cost of a CNVR programme over 10 years will be cheaper than the government's annual cost for catching and killing.
Everything that I have said above requires people who loves animals but also have a brave heart and can be professional. Dealing with the government is frustrating and requires great skills. Education need people with good people skills and who are good with children. Sterilisation -- you need one or two very good vets. This is all working for the long term, to stop animals suffering now and forever. This is very different from what Lyudmilla is doing or what people with "shelters" are doing.
Obviously you will come across animals, mostly puppies, who cannot be released back onto the streets. In this case, you will need to find them homes. I think this is definitely the right thing to do, and it will extremely emotionally rewarding to see each animals you save. However, I would caution you against having too many animals such that you no longer have time for CNVR and Education. One good way to limit yourself is to make sure that you help only the number of animals that you (and your friends) can help in your own homes -- usually no more than 2-3 in your home at any one time. And until these animals find new homes, you do not accept any more animals. This is difficult (because it means you will have to say "no" to many animals who may die without your help) but necessary if you don't want to become just a shelter.
Lastly, back to Lyudmilla, one way you could help her would be to make sure that her 70 animals are all neutered that so no more will be born. (Unfortunately we also encounter great resistance to neutering with hoarders because they cannot understand the ethical reason.) Perhaps you can persuade her to give you the youngest ones to find new homes by making her understand that these animals will have nowhere to go if her home is demolished later this year. Dogs that are extremely ill or severly crippled (if they can walk) or aggressive should be euthanised.
I am sorry to overwhelm you with information and seem so cold-hearted. Helping animals is not a simple thing. The Mayhew and many other organisations like us are working, trying to end animal suffering. Governments are slowly learning, responding to pressure such as tourism, agreeing to negotiate with professional organisations like The Mayhew and the RSPCA. There is hope and we are moving in the right direction.
I send you also some links which include information on CNVR and other animal welfare activities.
http://www.mtspayneutertaskforce.org/
http://www.snip-international.org/
http://www.wsdindia.org/index.htm
http://www.yamp.com/balidogs/
I know there is a lot of information. Feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Regards,
Joy Lee
International Projects Officer
The Mayhew Animal Home
Trenmar Gardens, Kensal Green
London NW10 6BJ
Direct Telephone: 020 8968 2440
Fax: +44 (20) 8964 3221
Website: www.mayhewanimalhome.org
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